MyDD :: Florida re-vote a no-go

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:06:10 AM EST

Interesting, but there are lots of power players at play here. This is not the end of this by any means.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting, but there are lots of power players at play here. This is not the end of this by any means.

Unless Florida Democrats suddenly have a change of heart, it most certainly is the end of this.

I would put my money (none / 0)

on them having a change of heart. I doubt that the decision to deny Florida voters a voice in the Democratic primary would be left up to a handful of Florida legislators.

by georgiapeach on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:14:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/pol itics/12delegates.html?hp

From the NYT:

But after meeting with Mr. Nelson on Tuesday night, Florida's Democratic members of the House of Representatives added a serious new wrinkle by announcing they were unanimously opposed to a mail-in contest. They did not elaborate, but released a statement that said, "Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind." The statement also said the delegation was committed to working with state and national Democrats and the two candidates "to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated."

Those delegates need to be seated the according to the primary results. It would be a big mistake to disenfranchise Florida's voters.

by Nobama on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:09:08 AM EST

But how? (none / 0)

Do you just ignore the DNC ruling? I've got children and I know better than to not follow through on a punishment. Florida's Democratic Party did nothing to stop the GOP House from changing the primary date. And then when offered DNC money to hold a separate primary later, they refused. They played chicken with the DNC like greedy children and now their delegation is banned.

It's not fair to Florida. They should re-vote and do it right. No method is perfect. A mail-in vote is subject to fraud (ballot stealing) and requires years to work out (Oregon has had it for 10 years). A straight-up primary cost $25 million and I haven't heard anything more on soft money funding it. Caucuses won't work because Florida has no experience with them. So what do you do?

If you seat the delegation as is, then you reward Florida for flouting the rules. You also disfranchise the hundreds of thousands of voters who stayed home knowing that the vote wouldn't count (there was a ballot initiative that got voters out to the polls though, not the Democratic contest).

One solution is to seat the pledged delegates 50/50 but let Hillary keep her superdelegates from the state. I doubt she'd go for it but without controlling the credentials committee, Hillary will have no choice.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:15:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The whole situation is complete mess (none / 0)

One comment that has caught my attention recently is that if DNC can punish states successfully, they can also help implement a rotation system for who goes first, because the state parties would be more weary.

I am personally all for re-vote of both states, and as an Obama supporter I really do nto think it will hurt him much.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:31:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But how? (none / 0)

Do you just ignore the DNC ruling?

Yes.

Beat John McCain.

Nothing else matters right now.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But how? (none / 0)

Yes.

Beat John McCain.

Nothing else matters right now.

I can agree with the sentiment, and I'd encourage Hillary Clinton to quit praising the man, but with all due respect, I think that maybe, just maybe, your suggestions are tinged with an ulterior motive.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:17:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Who gets punished if you alienate Dem voters (none / 0)

in what is arguably the key swing state? McCain wins. Beating McCain has to take precedence over party discipline, which is always going to be joke among Dems. Remember Will Rogers elegant summation, "I belong to no organized political party; I'm a Democrat!"

The fascist takeover of America has already occurred; but the people have not yet realized.

by magnetics on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:42:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who gets punished if you alienate Dem voters (none / 0)

Who gets punished if you alienate Dem voters in what is arguably the key swing state?

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the map. Our chances of taking Florida this year aren't good. Let me list the reasons:

1. Charlie Crist has a 70% approval rating

Jeb Bush had a comparable approval rating when he left office
The GOP has near super-majorities in both houses of the Florida legislature
Florida has an abundance of military folks
Florida is extremely elderly (and no, Hillary Clinton doesn't do well among the elderly in the general electorate)

And finally, I'd like to see a single poll indicating that Florida Democrats will feel "alienated" having their delegation divided 50-50.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:27:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:36:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Those delegates need to be seated the according to the primary results. It would be a big mistake to disenfranchise Florida's voters.

Oh, those delegates will be seated alright -- 50-50. And no, that's not disenfranchisement, it's simply a refusal to recognize an illegitimate election. If you have a problem with this, go talk to Hillary Clinton and Harold Ickes.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:21:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

50-50 is meaningless... complete bull and you know it

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:29:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

50-50 is meaningless... complete bull and you know it

Well within the rules, and more than generous to a state that thought it could flout them. And Harold Ickes and Hillary Clinton both agreed. Build a time machine if you'd like to debate it with them.

No way. No how. No McCain.

Most of these (potential) SDs support Clinton, don't they?

Seems like they're going for broke to seat the delegation as is, while risking it not being seated at all.

Then again, they may just be taking an initial hard line position...no need to make a concession before negotiations begin.

by freedom78 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:12:12 AM EST

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

So you think the democrats would somehow go into the convention with the Florida and Michigan nomination seated.

That is not reality based.

By the way the whole Benedict Clinton thing ,

Not cute.

This is not kindergarten.

by lori on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:14:56 AM EST

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:42:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

By the way the whole Benedict Clinton thing ,

Not cute.

This is not kindergarten.

You're right, there's nothing cute about Hillary Clinton putting her massive ego before the good of the Democratic Party. And her refusal to "denounce and reject" Geraldine Ferraro? Traitorous.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:18:09 AM EST

Who are "D..D..Democrats representing Florida (DRF...???) in Congress"... (DRF-IC)?

It is a legitimate question.

How many of these DRF-IC Democrats are there who have chosn to speak up for everyone. Who are they? Obama folks? I don't see this as a definative answer to anything.

Look, this is playing out as a grand political struggle right now in the halls of power. Obama is trying to quash any attempts at a revote and Clinton is trying to enfranchise voteres in these states. Their motivations are obvious to anyone who watches Monday Night Football, Obama has the lead going into the third quarter of the semi-final, but his team looks gassed. A few of his star players have been sidelined and his gameplan is out of tricks. Clinton is coming on strong and two more primaries in key electoral states would certainly convince everyone that her team is headed to the Superbowl. He wants to take the ball and run to mama. Well... anyway...that's the way I see it... :)

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Except she just lost her whole March 4 delegate pickup after WY and MS and her media narrative is collapsing with the Geraldine Ferraro crap. Her momentum is gone. Now Obama has 6 weeks to campaign in PA like he did in IA.

Also, Obama has legitimate reasons to worry about a mail-in. It takes years to perfect a mail-in system like Oregon where you register signatures electronically to ensure against fraud. Sending out ballots at this stage is little better than an internet vote. Anybody can steal ballots and send them in. Hell, there were examples of vote-stealing in Texas where voters showed up and found their name already checked off because of a mail-in vote.

But it seems it's the FL delegation that has the real beef with any re-do, not Obama.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:30:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh come on. You can't win in the fall without Florida and Michigan. Stop being suich dumb asses.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your whole line about seating FL or we lose in November is self-serving disingenuous crap. There is no evidence whatsoever that Florida voters will choose John McCain because the DNC won't seat their delegates. None. Just wishful (and maliciously wishful) thinking on your part. Give it a rest. Either they re-vote (somehow), they'll be sat if they don't affect the final outcome, or they won't be sat. That's it. None of it will affect the race against John McCain.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:33:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh come on. You can't win in the fall without Florida and Michigan. Stop being suich dumb asses.

Who's the dumbass? The Survey USA map had Obama beating McCain by a larger margin than Clinton without Florida. Currently, McCain is beating both Democrats in Florida (per RCP average). Moreover, we still aren't clear on what the Michigan party is going to do -- but it's not really going to matter. There's no way that Hillary Clinton wins Michigan by more than a few percentage points (in fact, I think she'd probably lose).

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:00:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Look, this is playing out as a grand political struggle right now in the halls of power.

Unless Hillary can convince Florida Democrats to reconsider and pay for a primary, there isn't going to be a "grand political struggle." This thing is over.

Clinton is trying to enfranchise voteres in these states.

How goddamn absurd. If you think Hillary Clinton really gives a flying-f**k about the voters of Florida (or any other state, for that matter), you're delusional. She and Harold Ickes had no problem with Florida being stripped of it's delegates prior to her realization that she couldn't win without it. Her deep concern for the voters of Florida is as phony as her ever-shifting persona.

Obama has the lead going into the third quarter of the semi-final, but his team looks gassed.

Quit buying the media narrative. Even when Obama loses he wins -- he hasn't trailed Clinton in pledged delegates the entire race. Moreover, there's no such thing as momentum in this race. Obama won MS by 23%, just as he was expected to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Clinton is probably going to win PA by single-digits and KY and WY by perhaps low double-digits. Obama will win NC by high double-digits and blow Clinton out of the water in OR, MT, and SD. IN is a toss-up, and I have absolutely no clue how Guam and Puerto Rico will vote. Outside of a bomb-shell revelation or Obama winning PA, nothing is going to fundamentally alter the dynamics of this race.

Clinton is coming on strong and two more primaries in key electoral states would certainly convince everyone that her team is headed to the Superbowl.

Yeah, the candidate trailing in every metric is going to be the nominee because she managed to win some "special" states. Perhaps next time, you can make CA, NY, TX, and OH worth double. This time, however, Clinton's toast.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:05:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has been the one that opposed a revote. Unless there is a revote, the current Florida delegation will be seated. That's the way it is going to go.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No he did NOT oppose a revote. He had legitimate concerns about ballot fraud in a mail-in vote. It takes a long time to figure out how to do a mail-in while insuring that people don't steal ballots. You need an electronic signature system, for example. It took Oregon years to figure it out.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:56:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bull. Complete garbage. He is just stalling to quash the revote and stiff Florida and Michigan. People do absentee balots all the time. This is just a red hearing to derail the process.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless there is a revote, the current Florida delegation will be seated.

Sure will, 50-50.

That's the way it is going to go.

Says who? You? Is this Queen Hillary I'm talking to?!?!

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:58:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bull. 50-50 is a complete smack in the face to these states. How about we take your state. Ignore the vote and divide it up 50-50?

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bull. 50-50 is a complete smack in the face to these states. How about we take your state. Ignore the vote and divide it up 50-50?

My state, Minnesota, followed the rules. (It also, I'm proud to say, delivered Obama a 67-32 victory). Now, I might feel sorry for these idiots in Florida and Michigan if they hadn't done it to themselves. But, seeing as they did, they have no one to blame but themselves. And I understand that the toddlers in Florida are always in need of attention and accommodation for their electoral dysfunction, but I'm through caring.

Possible solution (none / 0)

How about seating the delegates 50/50 but letting Hillary keep her superdelegates from the state. She gets 8 superdelegates (but he gets 4). At least they'll have a delegation, even if it won't be based on their bogus primary. Hillary won't like it for obvious reasons, but it may be the only option left to let FL have any presence at the convention.

The bigger problem for Hillary is that a definite FL primary re-do victory would have given her some momentum down the stretch. Now she just has PA, KY and WV, and that won't be enough to change the narrative down the stretch.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:20:03 AM EST

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:24:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about a big flying turkey coming down and giving Christmas gifts to all the poor and unfortunate starving babies across the land. We could promise them hope and Obama if they would just suspend reason for a few months.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:30:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, then how about we go as is. None of the Florida delegates get sat and that's the end of it. Whine about disfranchisement to the state party that put themselves in this mess in the first place by going along with the GOP early primary and then by refusing DNC money to move the primary later. Good bye Florida.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And we lose. Great plan.

How about we figure out how to win, instead of eating our own, and doing the Republicans work for them.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:01:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are we becoming a wee bit unhinged?

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unhinged is trying to win the general election without Florida and Michigan you turkey.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unhinged is trying to win the general election without Florida and Michigan you turkey.

We'll definitely need Michigan, but Florida -- not so much. With Obama as the nominee, we'll have a much better shot at NV, CO, VA, IA, NM, and possibly NC and ND. With Hillary as the nominee, I could see a scenario in which she plops her ass down in Florida for three months and still manages to lose the state to McCain/Crist.

by arkansasdemocrat on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:20:52 AM EST

Who cares? The Florida congresspersons aren't the ultimate arbiters of this argument.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:25:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But they do have a lot of say, apparently. They can tell the state party not to do it. And then it won't happen.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:27:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stiff 'em..

You go Obama. Feed 'um a shit sandwich. Then ask 'um to vote for you in November. Super plan... They broke the rules, gotta be punished...

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It isn't Obama. It's the DNC. And now it's the Florida Congressional delegation. Blame this on Obama all you want be he didn't set up the rules. He doesn't enforce rules. And he doesn't get any say in the re-making of the rules. The FL Democratic Party fed their own voters a shit sandwich by cheating the DNC and THEN by refusing an offer to move the primary. Hell, blame Harold Ickes for voting for the sanction.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:38:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So what?

Then we lose. You are all satisfied that you stood on principle and John McCain is in the White House.

He appoints three more "conservative Supreme Court Justices and your kids have to travel to Sweden and r5eliguish their citizenship to get an abortion. Get a grip on what is important.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, SUSA showed how easily Obama wins the White House without Florida. Bill Clinton won in 1992 without Florida.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Watch that map change once Chris, Wolfe, Gloria and the gang are given their new marching orders...

If they make you...they can break you...

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:52:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Watch that map change once Chris, Wolfe, Gloria and the gang are given their new marching orders...

If they make you...they can break you...

Oh, so now you're a future-teller too? Please, tell us what will happen, O' great prognosticator. To bad you weren't able see that you backed the wrong horse.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:03:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, I will.

After an entire primary season of rabid support from MSNBC, Fox News and to a lesser extent CNN Barack Obama stiffs Florida and Michigan. He gets the nomination in chaos, and then the media that build him up tears him to ribbons over the next couple months leading up to the general election. John McCain the weakest candidate in history, and a certifiable looney, is propelled into the White House by his corporate masters. Over the course of his term three "conservative" Supreme Court Justices are installed, abortion is outlawed and the corporations are given free reign to spy on and imprison employees that don't show up on time to work or have sex with a prostitute. Well, maybe not that last one, but maybe so, it just happened to a Democrat Governor, so who knows...

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:19:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

After an entire primary season of rabid support from MSNBC, Fox News and to a lesser extent CNN Barack Obama stiffs Florida and Michigan. He gets the nomination in chaos, and then the media that build him up tears him to ribbons over the next couple months leading up to the general election. John McCain the weakest candidate in history, and a certifiable looney, is propelled into the White House by his corporate masters. Over the course of his term three "conservative" Supreme Court Justices are installed, abortion is outlawed and the corporations are given free reign to spy on and imprison employees that don't show up on time to work or have sex with a prostitute. Well, maybe not that last one, but maybe so, it just happened to a Democrat Governor, so who knows...

AHHHGHGHGHGHGHGHAHGHGHGH!!!!!!!!!!! Who will save us from this calamity!?!?!?!? If only we'd listened to MediaFreeze and Hillary!!!!!!!!!!!

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If only...

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously, you are not thinking straight when you say you can win the White House without Florida. Things have gotten so far afield that you would throw Florida under the bus to win the nomination. That should disqualify your candidate out of hand. Crazy.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:55:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously, you are not thinking straight when you say you can win the White House without Florida. Things have gotten so far afield that you would throw Florida under the bus to win the nomination. That should disqualify your candidate out of hand. Crazy.

Once again, there are many scenarios in which we take the White House without goddamn Florida. One of them was illustrated very vividly in a Survey USA map that came out a week ago. We have only your wisdom to the contrary, and we know you have a history of backing losers, so what are we to do?

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:44:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

On that map. Michigan is blue. Switch it to red and we lose.

by Check077 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 06:23:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The more Obama holds out, the more he will get the blame.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But they do have a lot of say, apparently. They can tell the state party not to do it. And then it won't happen.

Gosh, they sure sound like "arbiters" to me. Don't you think they have a nice arbiter-ie ring to 'em, elrod?

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:45:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

We will see...

by nikkid on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:22:31 AM EST

So If I live in FL, voted, and the DNC discounts it...then why would I support a democratic nominee in November?

I would be pissed and vote for a republican.

The DNC can't really be THIS stupid can they?

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes We Can!

yeah I really would not (none / 0)

suggest Florida's party elders are Obama's best friends. Starting from Ben Nelson and down they are more or less Hillary crowd.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah I really would not (none / 0)

That's because they are ReThug geniuses what Obama so they can beat him silly in the general. This is not rocket science. Oh, you mean the Dems, I don't know... Nelson seems cool.. We are so close to being truly f'd...

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:41:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yeah I really would not (none / 0)

We are so close to being truly f'd...

My thoughts exactly.....

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Look cheer up (none / 0)

Hilary is horribly tough to beat. And if Obama can do that, he can wipe out McCain.

I also think that even if she loses and Obama is the president, she will definately be the driving force for healthcare reform in the senate.

-- be excellent to each other

by kindthoughts on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:48:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:57:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would be pissed and vote for a republican.

But then you'd be teh stupider

Why should they have a revote? (none / 0)

Everyone was on the ballot and no one campaigned there. He ran commercials there. She didn't. Most voters don't see candidates in person and they all have TVs and internet in Florida. Seat the delegates according to primary votes.

by lombard on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:24:30 AM EST

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He ran national ads, some of which seeped into Florida. He didn't campaign there, but she held a Potemkin victory celebration there.

The DNC set up the rules. Tough shit for Florida that their Democratic Party played chicken with the DNC. If I were a Floridian I'd be primarying out all the morons that put the state in the mess in the first place. This reminds me of the Palm Beach County election commissioner who set up the butterfly ballot.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good plan....not. Pour on the hate, and lose the election to John McCain. Do you guys realize what is at stake here?

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:35:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the only thing at stake here is Hillary Clinton's last attempt to come back into the race. Florida Democrats won't hold it against Barack Obama (or Hillary Clinton for that matter) if their state party and the DNC can't work out an arrangement. But Hillary sure wants a revote or the illegal primary delegates sat so she can get back in the race. Real principle.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:45:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Clinton won Florida by a whopping percentage. Now it would be even more. Let them vote, for goodness sake. What are you afraid of?

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm afraid of nothing. My candidate isn't preventing Florida from re-voting. Why do you keep insisting that Obama is standing in the way of a re-vote. He isn't. He has legitimate concerns about fraud in a mail-in contest. But he doesn't oppose a mail-in.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:54:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh yeah? Watch him attempt to quash the vote. Pay attention to his actions, not his words.

by Check077 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 06:25:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, he's standing in the way of a revote without calling out for revote. Being mum about it is actually hurting the two states.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:00:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This reminds me of the Palm Beach County election commissioner who set up the butterfly ballot.

Yeah, Florida's a real prize, ain't it? Had the state perhaps succeeded in getting its turn-out above 48% in the closest presidential election in its history, we might never have experienced the joys of Bush. So thanks for Bush, you c**ksuckers.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:41:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Seat the delegates according to primary votes.

You'll have to run that one by Obama -- His and Dean's folks will control the credentials committee.

I agree with you that (none / 0)

Clinton is a political traitor (she still hasn't clarified that she doesn't endorse McCain over Obama, so effectively she endorsed McCain over Obama), but I think it is in the best interest of everyone that Florida and Michigan be redone. Michigan cannot stand as is, and if Michigan must be redone, then so must Florida.
Florida and Michigan decided to defy DCCC rules, now they need to pay for their bad decision.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:29:33 AM EST

Re: I agree with you that (none / 0)

Michelle Obama endorsed mccain over clinton. MO has no loyalty to party.

by findthesource on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:32:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0)

Then it is a good thing that MO isn't the candidate.
Did it ever occur to you that MO is angry and upset at Clinton's betrayal?
MO has every right to be, and I angry and upset to.
And after Clinton betrayal, I'm mulling voting for McCain if Clinton wins the nomination.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:30:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

Dont vote for McCain. He is crazy.

Plus, three more "conservative" Supreme Court Justices, and in ten years your kids will be traveling to Sweden for an abortion. You friends will be afraid to talk to you in public. This country will suck.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:43:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Only (none / 0)

Under extreme circumstances would I even consider it.
But I am waiting for Clinton's retraction, clarification, or apology (not just to Obama, but to all of his supporters).

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you that (none / 0)

There's a small difference from hesitating to say that you'll work for someone (hell, Michelle wasn't thrilled about Barack's candidacy), and declaring the nominee from the other party qualified whereas your rival is not. With a little effort, I think you can see that.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you that (none / 0)

You go fetboy! On this, at least, we agree!

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:26:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (none / 0)

No one wants to win on a technicality, and no one wants to be perceived that they won on a technicality.
Unless they are a date rapist facing trial.

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:35:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks (none / 0)

If I was Eliot tonight, I'd take a technicality... Peace

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:40:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Peace to you to (none / 0)

In the end we want the same thing; what's best for the country! We just have a difference of opinion of what that is
A lot people of here, and just about everyone in the Republican party, often times fails to realize that fact.
We are all Americans (E Pluribus Unum).

"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)

by fetboy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by findthesource on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:31:38 AM EST

why is it over???

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:46:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is not over.

by animated on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:34:47 AM EST

The problem for HRC supporters is that the default outcome is doing nothing. With so many parties with competing interests and agendas, it becomes extremely difficult to orchestrate such an expensive event as a revote. So, sorry to say, HRC supporters, time is not on your side on this one.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:58:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You arr right. All Obama has to do is nothing and the Democrats lose in the fall. How proud of that are you?

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:06:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You arr right. All Obama has to do is nothing and the Democrats lose in the fall. How proud of that are you?

Hahahaha. The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!!

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:38:12 AM EST

It's a farce. I'm an Obama supporter and I want a re-vote because it will legitimize the process better. But the FL Democratic Party leadership is filled with spoiled children. They still think the DNC will buckle and seat the delegation as is. An Obama-led credential committee might do that if the pledged delegate margin is big enough. That sure won't help Hillary much though. She actually needs a re-vote more than seating the current delegation because of the momentum implications.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are an Obama supporter.

Well tell that candidate of yours that the wheels are about to come off the bus. People are wising up to transparent attempt to stiff them and if he doesn't switch gears soon he will be toast in these states and the damage will spread much further. They are goofing up big time, and it is not the fist time. Tell him to wake up, because he is on the verge of messing things up for thew Party and giving this election to McCain.

by elrod on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What is your point? Do you honestly think it is Barack Obama standing in the way of a re-vote?

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes.

And it will become more clear everyday. Look at my diaries over the last four days. It is all I think about. IMO it is the biggest mistake that Democrats are about to make. Obama is about to elect John McCain by stiffing Florida and Michigan to win the Primary. You think I'm crazy, just watch...

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:05:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They still think the DNC will buckle and seat the delegation as is.

No, I don't think they do -- they just aren't capable of orchestrating a re-vote (this is Florida, after all).

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:47:29 AM EST

Obama hates Floridians...

There can be no other reason.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wonder what Obama has against people from Florida and Michigan anyway?

Is it the way the dress? The way they walk? The way they talk?

Is it their unigue insight into the ways of the world? The fact that they have suffered economic hardship? Hurricanes?

Does Obama hate Huricane victims like George Bush?

Perhaps he hates people who have lost their jobs up in Michigan. That might be why he doesn't want them to vote? He certainly seems to be pulling out all the stops to deny them that right.

Why?

by affratboy22 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 01:59:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The DNC took away Fl delegates in order to ENFORCE PARTY RULES. She just does not like the rules because she has lost under them. You can not change how the score will be calculated in the middle of the game, you make it clear in the begging to all involved parties and thats that. Mrs. Clinton had SO MANY advantages going into this, perhaps she should look back and hold herself accountable on why she let so many of them slip past her.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:02:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hahahaha. The wheels are coming off the bus.....

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama hates Floridians...

No, I'm sure Obama likes Floridians just fine. Now I, on the other hand, think they're by and large a bunch of dipshits, but that's neither here nor there.....

There can be no other reason.

Oh, I think you know that there's another reason. Why don't you have Harold Ickes explain it to you.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:16:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's see how this all goes.

You're guy is making a huge mistake. IMO it is all about ego and getting to the next level, even though the damage will be catastrophic. I hope something happens to stop this crazy plan and these two critical states get to vote. As I said, we will see. One thing is for sure now though. Florida and Michigan now know who it was that disenfranchised them, Obama has crossed the Rubicon. He will not win these states in the fall.

I hope the superdelegates are taking notice.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

By the way...

Togeth er Florida and Michigan have 44 electoral votes, for a swing of 88 votes or 15% of what it takes to win. Your man is a dummy.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:14:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Togeth er Florida and Michigan have 44 electoral votes, for a swing of 88 votes or 15% of what it takes to win. Your man is a dummy.

Are you saying that Hillary was beaten by a dummy? And for the record, we fully plan on winning Michigan.

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:09:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's see how this all goes.

Come one! Come all! MediaFreeze "The Magnificent" will now foretell the FUTURE!!!(sans evidence of any kind).

by Scan on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:25:34 AM EST

This diary is dishonest. There is one important group of people opposed...but it hasn't been ruled out yet. I think Howard may need to give them a good talking to or something.

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:30:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From your lips to God's ears...

Tomorrow is another day...

Its posturing (none / 0)

Wasserman Schultz has something up her sleeve or they are threatening the noncommittal Obama campaign with a party crisis if they don't budge on the revote.

by linc on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:36:23 AM EST

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:48:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She's a pretty smart cookis. I hope she does...

by MediaFreeze on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 02:48:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

cookie.... lol

no offense intended

by RP McMurphy on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:12:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wasserman Schultz has something up her sleeve or they are threatening the noncommittal Obama campaign with a party crisis if they don't budge on the revote.

Ah, Debbie "The Ace" Wasserman Schultz.....You should've watched the Sunday talkies -- she's opposed to a mail-in ballot because she fears it'll disenfranchise the poor.